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Morning Joe

News/Business. Interviews with newsmakers and politicians; host Joe Scarborough. New.

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03:00:00

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San Francisco, CA, USA

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Virtual Ch. 787 (MSNBC HD)

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mpeg2video

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ac3

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1920

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1080

TOPIC FREQUENCY

Us 32, Susan Rice 23, Washington 16, Lindsey Graham 13, John Mccain 12, Marvin Miller 11, America 11, Mika 10, Mccain 10, Kelly Ayotte 9, Arkansas 7, Ray Liotta 6, Lsu 6, John Heilemann 6, Colin Powell 6, Andrea Mitchell 6, Barry Manilow 5, Willie 5, Mark Mckinnon 5, Tom Cole 5,
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  MSNBC    Morning Joe    News/Business. Interviews with newsmakers  
   and politicians; host Joe Scarborough. New.  

    November 28, 2012
    3:00 - 6:00am PST  

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at the top of the show we asked why are you awake? producer john tower has your answers. >> you got michael who writes a day without mika is a day for sunshine. i have nothing to say for joe. i give you tremendous points for patience and do have a question, do you ever get the urge to reach over and slap joe? >> i do. i do. control room, should i slap him upside the head at the top of the 6:00? yes or no. "morning joe" starts right now.
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♪ >> evening though every republican in congress has signed the no taxes pledge created by the president of americans for tax reform, grover norqui norquist, the two most terrifying words a republican can hear, other than buenos diaz. but now some republicans are abandoning the anti-tax pledge as fast as they abandoned -- what's his name? don't help me. don't help me. rip flambe -- no, that's my personal trainer. >> all right. good morning. it's wednesday, november 28th. look at this live look at rockefeller plaza. it is just lit up. gorgeous. >> you know what happens tonight? >> oh, yes, the big tree
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lighting. >> big commerce -- >> exciting for all the children. >> all right. welcome to "morning joe." >> mike, do you think that's going to whip people into a buying frenzy -- >> it's comcastic. >> a five-year running joke. >> i guess he wasn't paying attention. >> yes. >> national affairs editor for "new york" magazine. john heilemann and andrea mitchell. >> a lot of people say, i'm in trouble. and they've got these little arm bands now, wwjd. what would joe do? so what do i say? you've seen those, wwjd. >> everywhere. >> i say make a mistake, just step up --
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>> say you're sorry. >> do you know how many times i have to do that a day? a lot. i find it works. look at this. john, i'm sorry, i made a mistake. can you say to me -- >> well. >> fry me because people really want to see that. >> mika, i'm sorry. i made a mistake. >> that's all right. >> i made a mistake, willie. >> how about this, i am so, so sorry. is there anything -- >> you just did it. so. >> so that's what happened on capitol hill. >> susan rice goes to capitol hill and she says, hey, you know what, bad intel, i made a mistake, i'm sorry. i am glad that the people that are in economy party on capitol hill have hearts as big as a
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montana sky because i'm sure they said, hey, it's cool. we all make mistakes. all of us on capitol hill, we all make mistakes from time to time and it's cool. so how did this work out after she said she was sorry? >> there's still another chance. ambassador susan rice is heading back to capitol hill today. >> i want to know what happened. >> well, i will tell you. she continued to defend her response on september 11th attack on the u.s. consulate in benghazi as a top pick to replace secretary of state hillary clinton. rice faces sort of an uphill battle because she failed to win over her harshest republican critics yesterday. >> i don't think it's an uphill battle. >> unless you want to be secretary of state for greenvil greenville, south carolina or mesa -- >> she requested this meeting was with specifically senators lindsey graham, kelly ayotte
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and -- >> they were upset. john mccain over the weekend. >> john mccain backed up. >> so it's really cool when she said i'm sorry. >> she did the brave thing and went right in there and said i want to -- >> how did that work. >> and talked about her initial account of the attack and explained to them she was relying on faulty intelligence and talking points from the intelligence community. >> they said? >> they said, you know what, we still don't get it. >> throw the video. >> we are significantly troubled by many of the answers that we got and some that we didn't get. it is clear that the information that she gave the american people was incorrect. >> bottom line, i'm more disturbed now than i was before. >> if you don't know what happened just say you don't know what happened. people can push you to give explanations and i want to say -- >> i'm more troubled today knowing having met with the
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acting director of the cia and ambassador rice. clearly the impression that was given, the information given to the american people was wrong, in fact, ambassador rice said today, absolutely it was wrong. >> drunk driving -- >> oh, thank you, mike. for sharing that. so ambassador rice -- >> what was that? john heilemann, what did we just say? >> i made a mistake. >> what did we just say and how did they pull kelly ayotte into this trifecta after lieberman starts running for the doors because lieberman is now fine. >> they need a third amigo at all times. >> so -- >> now they have -- now two of the three are women -- now at least one of the three are women. look, they're trying to recover from the -- >> all right, so andrea mitchell, please tell us what you think is going on here.
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>> well, i certainly do think that there is a proxy fight going on here. i'm not exactly sure what the dynamic is but mccain and graham said they were backing off the ledge so she goes up there thinking it's going to be smoothed over as her, you know, side man she's got the acting director of the cia, mike morale who is widely believed to be the successor of david petraeus and blows up in their face and later they put out another statement criticizing morrell claiming some of the rewriting of those talking points was done by the fbi to take out al qaeda references, not by the zewe we had been told by the director of national intelligence came from the intelligence committee. it's worse than when she went
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up. she'll see bob corker, known to be bipartisan from tennessee and i don't think it'll be quite as vitriolic as yesterday. she felt she wanted to clear her name and she had been maligned and just been on morning television. that the real issue as jay carney was trying to say what happened before, what happened during but not what happened on sunday morning television programs and there is an investigation that hillary clinton has commissioned. it is a legally mandated investigation being led by none other than the former chairman, joint chief, mike ullin and co-chaired from mike pickering and deputy secretary of state. it's going to be coming out in mid-december and reported to congress and i understand it's going to be very tough on the state department for not ramping up security which many people believe could be the real issue here, not what was said on sunday morning television. but the white house is fighting for her. >> andrea, i just -- i'm confused but maybe you can help
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straighten this out. i would think lindsey graham and senator mccain, for sure, not sure about kelly ayotte have been on sunday morning shows many, many, many times. and i'll leave it there and not even go to the point that maybe at times they might have said things that they weren't completely confirming. >> what they're suggesting is that she said for political reasons three weeks before the electric. ths that's what lindsey graham suggested. >> did john mccain say that colin powell was unfit to continue as secretary of state after the information that he gave before the united nations that led us into the iraq war? did that make colin powell unfit to be secretary of state or was colin powell given bad intel? i never heard him say that. i never heard lindsey graham say that. >> condoleezza rice. >> same thing with condoleezza
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rice. she gave bad information to congress, not just to a sunday morning talk show. to congress. to congress. >> how can you say these three people we saw on video, lindsey graham, kelly ayotte and senator john mccain are not jumping into an intelligence debate for political reasons because they did not speak up at other very key times, even perhaps more significant times in -- >> we get the point. i think we all agree. maybe there are people out there across america who are saying, you know what we really need, we really need people to fight hard night and day to sidetrack secretary of state potential candidate because of some things she said on -- maybe there's people out there. i don't know where they are because i've never met them but do want to know this. like what's their long game, willie? what are they doing? this doesn't help the republican party. it's like mitt romney's dumb
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press conference the day after libya exploded and the ambassador died. there is a time and place -- there are so many ways to go after susan rice. >> and there are real questions on whether she even has the temperament to be secretary of state. that's a big question in washington, d.c. let me say it again. does susan rice have the temperament to be secretary of state? there are a lot of people, democrats who will tell you privately that just maybe she doesn't. but we're not talking about this. this is a clown show that's going on right now. what is -- >> i love that debate. >> well, the long game is unclear and the short game is even more unclear because they're not going to hold up the nomination of susan rice. i meaning if you look at the big picture. they only need to peel off -- i don't know what the number is five or six republican senators. >> who do they end up making stronger? >> they make the obama white house or susan rice look stronger but fighting the fight, three, four, five of them on a
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losing cause and won't hold up the nomination with four senators. >> it would appear that prior to yesterday that this was all a political passing storm that would get through this and speak behind closed doors and get through this or she would get through this but maureen dowd today in "the new york times" and in an interview with senator susan collins of maine, a moderate voice on the republican site of the aisle expresses some misgivings about ambassador rice, which is a real, i would think, danger sign for her -- >> listen, the president is going to get the secretary of state that he wants. if he wants susan rice, other republicans are going to do is waste a lot of time and effort and in the last -- in the last -- they know something that nobody else knows that susan rice was deliberately cooking the books but when she has the intel community sitting next to her saying this is what we'll let you say, i think she's
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pretty good shape. >> i think that's true and also making her -- putting the president in a corner from which it's almost impossible for him not to nominate her but wants her to be secretary of state -- look at all the signs, he seems to be leaning in her direction for awhile but now in this position if he doesn't nominate her, he's backing down in the face of what seems to be largely a political and unfounded opposition to her. it seems to me like they're making it -- they're almost making it inevitable her nomination. >> they are and he has the votes in the end he has the votes and can't believe the republican party will filibuster this woman. >> it doesn't make sense when it comes to politics. it just doesn't make any sense at all and secondly, it doesn't make any sense at all when it
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comes to substance. now, if susan rice had something to do with security, had something to do with a repeated denials of the administration to provide more security, to libya, if it had anything to do with the fact that the s.e.a.l.s that were calling for help and got no attack during the attack, if she had anything to do with it, i would be the first to say she is unfit for office. she had nothing to do. she was the administration spokesperson who actually followed what the intelligence community told her to say. >> what about if she attacks senator mccain in the past -- >> four years ago. >> and embarrassed him, does that apply? >> well, i don't know. but if this is a personal thing, you got a lot going on here. the question is when is the republican party going to say, senator mccain, we have so much respect for you but this isn't
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probably what we need to be focused on when the president is trying to raise taxes by 4% or 5% on top of job earners. >> joe lieberman walked away from -- >> unfortunately his vote doesn't count so it was easy for him to do that. i haven't seen a brave face yet. >> the other thing i find curious, the thing we keep saying there are these serious issues around going back and looking at what happened. the failures of intelligence and security. it seems to me john mccain, lindsay graham, kelly ayotte, republicans and democrats alike should want to know the answer to those questions and every day you talk about this, it is a side show and distraction from the real issues that -- if you want to hold congressional hearings on why were chris stevens' requests for more security ignored? those are questions that everyone should want to get to the bottom of because we have diplomatic -- embassies and consulates all over the world and should want to know what the
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failures were so we can keep our people safe. >> right now as we're debating about raising taxes and other issues, we had warren buffet on the show. he said raising the top marginal tax rate to 39.6% wouldn't catch any of the top income earners in america. that it would not impact them at all. you know, why should republicans be focusing on that, the real political battle in washington today? instead of focusing on -- a battle they know they'll lose against a woman of color after they just got shellacked, shellacked in the polls among people of color and females? why are they doing this and, andrea, a bigger question as we go to a new congress, is john mccain going to continue to have the disproportionate impact he has in the senate caucus. mika and i talked to so many
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over the past two, three years that say we want republican senators. we want out of afghanistan but you know what, we just sort of stay out of john's way. how many times have we -- >> a lot. it's disturbing. they stay out of his way. are they going to blindly follow -- i love and respect senator mccain but don't want my party to blindly follow him over a cliff on this battle especially if it's a personal one. >> i think on this one it may be personal but the answer to your broader question republicans will continue to respect and follow his advice and syria is the next big issue that he is pounding away on. he was at a forum at the newseum yesterday and crying out for american leadership on syria which means more involvement and there are a lot of big issues he has a huge influence on because of his experience, respect and personal history. this issue i'm not so sure
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they'll follow him on but two or three have said they're putting holds on a nomination. no bell laureate economists nominated for the federal reserve who was finally withdrew his name after a year of waiting because he was not going to be -- >> consumer. >> and the consumer protection service agency, elizabeth warren's former agency so you have people all over the place, judges -- >> ambassadors. >> when lindsey graham mentioned yesterday was john boughten and that was, okay, a warning because john was not confirmed for u.n. ambassador then was a recess appointee. no way the president will nominate a secretary of state as a recess appointee. you cannot with credible lead diplomacy over the world. we'll have a debate tomorrow. there is a debate in the general assembly of the united nations on palestinian statehood. it is symbolic but now france is going along with the rest of the general assembly, the united states and israel and a few
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others will probably stand alone against this gesture considered a very important move by the sort of weakened fatah branch of the palestinians after what happened with gaza and hamas and susan rice has to represent the united states. and there's got to be a lot of weakening of her position. >> wow, a lot going on. obviously the fiscal cliff as well. the president is sitting down with a dozen chief executeties today to talk about this. some of them were prominent supporters of mitt romney. and then the president is going to try and sell his budget plan going to a toy factory. speaking of -- >> that's where i'd go. >> speaking of the budget, coming up, former treasurer secretary larry summers joins us on set and ray liotta and mark mckinnon and in a few minutes harold ford jr. up next the top stories in the political playbook with mike allen but first bill karins with
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a check on the forecast. bill. >> good morning, mika and everyone out here live rockefeller plaza. the world's failous rockefeller center christmas tree will be lit 8:00 nbc, 7:00 central. this tree has a little bit of history, not your typical tree. this tree had to survive hurricane sandy and was picked out in new jersey and had to tie it up quickly right before the storm hit to protect it from the storm because they didn't want to have to pick out a new tree. it survived, of course, sitting here and it'll be later on this evening. we had a messy day yesterday. wasn't pretty, the airports had problems too. now as we go throughout the day it's cold in the wake of the norm. for the tree lighting it will be chilly. windchill, 32 and we will see the temperature itself somewhere right around 39. as far as the roads go after that little snow and rain yesterday, secondary roads could have a minor issue but later no problems at the airports. no travel issues whatsoever,
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we'll see highs in the 40s all through the northeast. rest of the country looks chilly. windchills cool seeing them around the rest of the nation especially in the midwest in the teens. even texas a little cold but the big weather story over the next three days if you are traveling to the west coast, you're not going to see typical west coast weather. it is going to be very cold over the next three days and rainy, even in los angeles. so this is what you expect. it's november. this is their rainy season. bundle up in the east this morning but all that snow and rain is gone. the tree will be lit later on tonight. you're watching "morning joe." we're brewed by starbucks. of washington about the future of medicare and social security.
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"the new york times," a federal judge ordered the big cigarette companies to pay for a public campaign to accept blame for, quote, deliberately deceiving the american public about the health risks of smoking. the judge's decision caps a long-running lawsuit filed by the government, the ads are expected to run across a virginia site of media platforms for as long as two years. look for similar ones in the future pertaining to certain foods. >> well, and exercising too. the people's whose hearts explode while they try to go out and run, stay on the couch. "the wall street journal" had a line, americans have been falling behind on student loan payments as the amount of student loan debt is increasing. according to calculations at least 11% of student loans are delinquent with outstanding balances totaling $956 billion since the end of 2007 total student debt increased by 56%, beware, this is the next big
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bubble. >> yes, it is. >> this is going to be -- >> you're right. "the denver post." millions of americans are hoping luck is on their side for tonight's record $500 million powerball jackpot. the odds of win rg currently 175 million to 1. >> all right. in the "los angeles times," angus t. jones, the young star of "two and a half men" apologized for a rant where he called the show filth and asked viewers to top watching. it was for his church. jones yesterday threw jesus under the bus saying he was grateful to be on the show and respects the people he works with and says he apologizes if his comments were interpreted as showing disrespect for the show that he called filth.
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>> they weren't disrespectful. they were true. >> do you think he got a call from mr. moonves? >> i don't know. curious how in one day jesus didn't want people to watch the show, according to his videotape and then the next day suddenly -- >> hmm. i guess money talks. >> jesus is fickle in his -- >> no. >> actually he's not. >> no, jesus is not. >> that's the thing that's so interesting. >> pretty darned consistent. angus t. jones, though, this young man -- >> boy. >> he is tap dancing with $325,000 of cash on the floor every episode. >> i can't believe he makes that much an episode. for a kid 19 years old. >> almost as much as willie gets. >> that's "morning joe" money. with us mr. mike allen. has a look at the playbook. >> good morning, guys. >> let's talk fiscal cliff. your lead story this morning on the white house new strategy to attack the fiscal cliff calling
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it kind of a road show. i guess the opposite of the way they've negotiated inside with john boehner and others on past deals. >> yeah, the president feels he has very strong cards here and one of the strategies of the white house is that if we go over the cliff, if all those tax cuts are allowed to expire, the president has real ways to extract pain from the republicans. polls already show people are more likely to blame republicans and here's something very important. republican leaders know that. joe scarborough writes on politico right now that when eric cantor, the number two house republican was there on your set, that he noticed a different tone from him and seeing more and more signs of that as the week goes along, the republican leaders recognize that the president has an inaugural address, a state of the union address and a lot of high-profile ways to pin the
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blame on them and so today we have this remarkable movement position by tom cole, one of the most politically savvy republicans who told their whip team that they would be better off to cave, that they would be better off to give what he calls the early christmas present of a tax cut for almost every voter, everyone except those top income earners and then fight the president later. so we saw that clip at the top of the show as of stephen colbert with a lightning bolt for grover norquist. someone every day becomes less afraid of him and putting him in the politico playbook breakfast asking around town about him and somebody said they told me grover now reminds them of a '70s rock star who didn't cut their hair or one of those japanese soldiers who didn't know world war ii was over.
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the times have changed. the math has changed so we'll ask grover norquist what is his survival strategy? he runs a $30 million operation and doesn't want to see that vanish. >> a lot of democrats emboldened saying we'll shield entitlements altogether. thanks so much, mike. >> on thursday night, house republicans are going to go see "lincoln" together, the number three house republican kevin mccarthy has rented a theater saying we need to make a deal. >> mike allen, thanks so much. >> what's so interesting, it wasn't really just eric that came on the show and said nothing yet we picked up a tone that something was different. same thing yesterday with dick durbin who came on the show because eric said, okay, we'll do deals on taxes, but you brought up capital gains tax, no. carried interest, no. raising the actual marginal rates, no, we don't want to do
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that yet when he left we got calls from democrats saying does he really want to make a deal? >> i got two yesterday that -- >> i got e-mails from democrats going wow, he sounds like he wants to make a deal. one senator said did he really mean what he said? considering that he said nothing, yeah, i guess so but it was the tone then yesterday dick durbin came on and we had to basically stop asking about medicare about three or four minutes in because it was nonsensical talking about creating new programs. but this is a guy that also supporting simpson bowles and let us know like eric, we'll make a deal and figure it out. >> both sides at various times tells you something about recent history. you think about where republicans were a year and a half ago, where their attitude was, no, we will not discuss revenues, not one penny, ever, ever, ever so for cantor to say, of course, we'll discuss new
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revenue and then he talks about the ways in which he won't -- that's a huge concession from where they were a year and a half ago. interest a lot of democrats who said for years these entitlement programs are sacrosanct to say, of course, medicare is on the table. it's just -- it's a big -- even when they don't go into details it's a big change from their ferocity and intransigence. >> speaking of that on the democratic side as willie said and mike said, we're not going to touch entitlements -- you know what, the president is already telling them, guys, relax, that's not the case, if this thing blows up it's bad for the economy. if all the tax cuts expire it's bad for the economy. the president understands he's got -- he's got -- talking about lincoln, you got radical democrats that don't want to touch entitlements or don't want to touch revenue and this
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president is going to have to hold both sides together. >> andrea mitchell, who knows washington, incite and out, they're saying nothing and they're saying nothing, right? >> i think there is some movement. maybe i am more optimistic, a lot are arguing you have fewer people in the middle in both parties as a result of the election and don't have democrats willing to make the concessions of on spending cuts and health care, medicare as you don't have republicans on one side, but i think -- i had bob corker on yesterday or the day before with klim clyburn yesterday and they were praise ing -- clyburn was praising what corker had to say. the president has a lot of leverage. what he said to congressman cummings, don't pack your bags. we're going to be around pore a while. i have alan simpson coming on our show. >> fantastic. >> all right, andrea mitchell. 1:00, thanks. >> thank you so much, andrea. up next, baseball loses marvin miller. if you don't know the name, you
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ought to know the name. perhaps the most influential figure -- >> absolutely. >> baseball but also in the history of professional sports. mike barnicle will help explain why. sports is next. two years ago, the people of bp made a commitment to the gulf. bp has paid over twenty-three billion dollars to help those affected and to cover cleanup costs.
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♪ all right. time for sports. a little -- i don't know if it's news. it's potential news coming out of the s.e.c., "the times-picayune" trying to lure les miles from lsu. why would he leave? the money. he won a national championship with them in 2 oop. already the fifth highest coach and makes 3.7 million bucks a year but arkansas's offer would make him the highest paid coach even ahead of nick saban. his agent has denied reports of that offer. the razorbacks have a history of shelling out big upon for their coaches. bobby petrino was making $3.6 million -- >> bought himself a motor siegel. >> motorcycle built for two.
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>> would you pay les that? i kind -- i kind of like les because he lets us win. with a lot of his calls. >> i think he's getting a raise at lsu. i think that's what this is about. i don't know why you leave lsu to go to arkansas unless it's just coldly about money. arkansas is a mess. >> arkansas is a mess but you got -- at lsu, you got to win a national championship every year or they're booing you at arkansas, 10-2, go build a program and you're beloved. >> can we talk about -- >> it's an important thing. >> let's change the face of sports. >> david wright. >> in that case, never mind. >> world historical figure. >> he's going to be back. everything is wonderful. so let's talk about mr. marvin miller. now the late marvin miller died a couple of nights ago on tuesday actually. he was a legendary figure not just in baseball but in the history of sports.
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revolutionized the games with free agency. yes, that comes from marvin miller. died yesterday after a battle with cancer and served as the executive director of the major league players association for 16 years starting in 1966. led a series of strikes, legal battles that resulted in free agency for players in 1975. let's explain this a little bit. i think people who follow sports now assume professional athletes are multimillionaires and can get money from the highest bidder. before marvin miller came along, that wasn't the case. there was the reserve clause where a team could keep a player for as long as they wanted. >> for real like property. chattel. >> you were an indentured servant of the organization you played for and they tried and marvin miller tipped it over the reserve clause. the reserve clause held them to a club forever so you couldn't move and that was turned over
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because of marvin miller and changed the nature not only of baseball, every sport. every professional sport. marvin miller taught players, the players association, what they call themselves, what it meant to be a member of the union. >> and the thing about so incredible, we think about unions being opponents to the free market. marvin miller brought the free market to sports. there was no -- there was nothing like market economics in baseball until marvin miller. >> a huge, huge figure in the history of american sports not only just baseball. >> somebody said yesterday he tried to get big league ball players to think like factory workers. marvin had been -- >> to their great benefit. >> and had been in the general counsel's office and brought that to the locker room, that mentality and it's been maintained ever since. >> every major league player making 32 million or utility player making 5 million this year ought to be thankful for the man right there. >> do you think there will come
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a day when the antitrust exemption gets overturned. that's still one of the weird things in the world. antitrust laws don't apply to professional sport. >> not as long as the influence of the present commission of bud selig is felt, another pivotal figure. he's maintained labor peace for years for decades, huge profitability and is very weary of even getting close to a point where that clause would be overturned. >> that would change the game -- >> profoundly. >> marvin miller should be in the hall of fame, shouldn't he? >> it's a disgrace he's not in the hall of fame. >> let's fix that. harold ford jr. meets us for mika's opinion pages.
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♪ live look in washington, d.c. as the sun comes up this morning and here visiting professor at nyu, former democratic congressman harold ford jr. good to have you. >> good morning. >> at the table. >> glad to be with you. >> a couple here. let's start with "the new york times," makeup turned breakup. this is more on susan rice attempting to negotiate or make amends with some republicans on capitol hill. maureen writes in part this, when rice asked to come to the hill to meet with some of her republican critic, it seemed day tent was nigh but somehow the hour and a half powwow caused an
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escalation with mccain, graham and ayotte saying they had more reservations than before. bob senator bob corker of tennessee scheduled to meet with rice suggested if she would be better suited to run the democratic national committee than state. if rice can't soothe the egos of some cranky gop pols, how would she negotiate with china? >> maureen is really down on susan rice. this is the second anti-rice column she's done. >> i know susan rice should be a terrific secretary of state and hope she has at a minimum has a chance to go before the senate to have an opportunity to share with the country her views, vision and more importantly why she would make a great succe success -- >> was she just the messenger in all this? >> i take the president at his word. the buck stops with the president and he shared with the senate -- i thought he shared it
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in somewhat an elegant way if you want to pick a fight, pick a fight with me. >> hung out to dry on that but given talking points that -- >> it was curious to listen to mccain yesterday after the meeting who seemed to be more bothered after the meeting than he was before the meeting. >> all three of them said they were more troubled -- >> i can't tell if it was the facts around benghazi or actually the ambassador herself that rankled feathers more. >> what do you mean by that. >> if and the she -- if answers she provided them, were they more concerned about the policies laid out by the administration or enumerated by the administration or more concerned about susan rice herself. >> right. her personality, her nature? >> ter temperament, whatever. unclear to me. >> surprising to me sometimes from a woman, i think. >> i'm in agreement with you. it was unclear to me what was the most bothersome. >> and interesting because the
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rest of the reporting from the rest of the senators in the room, people -- the reporting -- the little we heard, well, none of the other senators felt this way although most of the others were like, it was not a contentious meeting. it was all fine and these guys came out -- it sounded very scripted and were all saying the talking points were very similar as they kind of decided what they would say after the meeting before the meeting took place? >> i'm not getting it. i know there are some personal histories, some issues between senator mccain and susan rice. >> there is. >> and i think she doesn't hold back when she's at the negotiating table. i'm sure she doesn't hold back just like the guys. and i wonder a little bit. i have to tell you, it seems to me like some people really can't seem to sort of accept certain personality traits from a woman as well as they do from a man unless someone has something more legitimate to put on the table as to what the problem is
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here. >> maybe they were expecting a full mea culpa and maybe they thought you know what, i take responsibility. >> the girlie thing. it was wrong. it was me, not you. we don't do that anymore. we're just like you. guys. >> what's number two? >> want another one? >> yeah. >> okay. >> i like when we get two. we only say we're wrong when we're wrong. we don't say we're wrong to make everybody feel better at the table. all right. oh this, is a good one. president obama's moment. since his re-election mr. obama has fueled a campaign-style effort to pressure republicans to give ground on taxes. that's fine, but it won't be enough. at some point he has to prepare the american people and his own supporters most of all for the hard decisions required to put the country on a sound financial footing. that means spending cuts. it means entitlement reform and a balanced solution that will please neither house speaker
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john a. boehner nor senator majority leader harry reid. in a position to make it happen. >> i think that's right. when the time comes, if we get to the time where a grand bargain of, you know, big deal that would take care of the nation's fiscal challenges for the next 10 or 20 or 30 year, the president will have to be the one who lays it all out and he's argued for a balanced approach, has offered, you know, $3 in spending cuts to every $1 in tax increases. what he campaigned on. he's in a good position to make that case. not -- the moment is not right exactly right now but i think when we get there he's going to be the one that will have to frame the whole thing up. >> we saw the polls yesterday and harold, that if this doesn't work out, people are going to blame and it seems republicans will take some of the blame. i think people are beginning to look for movement from both sides but would be upset if it
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didn't happen with a republican party. >> it has to work out in some form or another. hopefully it's a long-term solution or patchwork solution so it's a question, who gives more on what side? i think democrats and the president certainly feels like they've been validated and emboldened by the elections a couple of weeks ago and will get more than they give. but both sides will have to give a little bit to avoid going over the cliff. i think the longer we wait and longer meaning up to the middle of next month, it's more likely that the democrats may have to give on entitlements. if the president wins on revenue increases which i hope and believe that he will, i think it's only fair and i listened to dick durbin yesterday who said we're going to have to accept more changes. that articulates well, as well, where we have to end up. hopefully the president who goes on the tour next week to pennsylvania and some other states will begin to prepare democrats for the inevitable which means we have to give a little more. >> still ahead.
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you never text me back. no, you never text me back. i love you. >> i texted you back. >> give me love back. >> former adviser to president george w. bush, mark mckinnon joins us on set and fortune magazine's leigh gallagher. you nover know what john heilemann might say next. "fortu magazine's leigh gallagher. you nover know what john heilemann might say next. ashley's got her christmas list -- she's looking for some gifts at toys r us. think you can get similar items at walmart for a lower price? i don't know. let's go see. disney princess bike -- $58. over $11 less than toys r us. wow! that's great. and assembly's free. toys r us charges 10 bucks. that's awesome! razor electric scooter. no way! it's a savings of over 30 bucks! oh -- that is awesome! on those two items -- you could save $42.98 versus toys r us. that is so good! i know!
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jet fumes from the national airport and people get out of school and the holidays come and people will sit down and -- >> look, here's a fact. the president has on the table a proposal that reduces the deficit by $4 trillion. that is substance. so he has not waited for people to start smelling the jet fumes at national airport. he has actively put forward a plan. >> okay. welcome back to "morning joe." welcome back. christmas is coming. >> all right. >> can you believe it? >> yeah, the christmas tree. it's looking beautiful. harold ford jr. is still with us and co-founder of the no labels organization, market mckinnon, also with us, "fortune" magazine's leigh gallagher. mark, good to see you. jeff zucker. >> a struggling --
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>> taking over cnn. >> looking to jz. >> jeff zucker to run the joint. >> that would be interesting. >> smart guy if see what happens. all right. well, good, good. so how is our republican party -- so mark mckinnon, it's been a very, very rough month for you as a republican. you haven't shaved since the election. >> ah. >> you're not -- >> looking very handsome. >> you're not brushing your hair. >> well. >> your scarves look a little out of touch with the rest of your outfit like this is a bad -- are the republicans though turning the corner? what are we doing? how are we doing? >> well, joe, there are a lot of things that give me encouragement. >> really? >> yeah, there are, there are. in the broader sense i've seen more movement faster from some big, important names in the party like jeb bush and others
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who i mean i thought there would be a harder line on revenue earlier than there has been. so i think they threw a flag -- >> you bring up jeb. what has he done have. >> jeb just seems to be -- he was in washington yesterday and he seems to be a calm voice of the party. i think the most significant thing he's throwing a rock in the pond. you don't come to washington as jeb bush and don't create a lot of murmurs. >> looks like he's gearing up for 2016. >> he does and i hope that he will. just even the idea of him thinking about running is already creating a lot of good talk about where the party needs to go. >> right. >> so when you have jeb bush out there even just -- even just moving around. his message is getting traction and it sends a good signal for the party and plus, i think there are more cracks even in the conservative entertainment collection. >> are there really. >> what is he saying? >> i think he's shown some body language that we need to due
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pathway to citizenship on immigration and charles fe felthammer and long way to go and talked about the lack of women in significant chairs in leadership is a problem because that sends a -- >> what, mika, is that story? >> it's -- let's see. there are 19 members that speaker boehner recommended yesterday to chair committees in the new congress and not one is a woman. isn't that hard? i could send him some binders. i could. i mean i'm serious. >> that is bad -- i guess that is kind of bad timing. >> really bad timing and seems like -- it seems like they're going backwards and i think this susan rice situation doesn't help, again. >> you know, that's the situation where somebody can exercise some leadership and say, we're doing this despite protocol or whoever was supposed
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to be next we'll get a couple women out there and, you know, sorry, mr. chairman or mr. who, we have to jump over you -- >> pretty crazy. >> we had eric cantor on and he seemed, again, he did what i think most leaders would do. not -- he's not going to negotiate on tv but seemed a lot more willing to put revenue on the table and say we're open to talk. dick durbin yesterday wouldn't say anything that i would consider responsible on saving medicare and yet he sounded very willing to talk. even if they're not saying the right things, sort of giving us a nod and wink saying we all want to get it done. >> i think absolutely it will. i think the big question will this be a two-part deal or sort of down payment and then we have something later which, of course, doesn't really help anybody. but i think absolutely we're clearly inching towards something. you're seeing so many big names start to say for the first time putting revenue on the table.
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we'll see how much this does anything, but obama is meeting with the ceos today and going externally this time around. >> what's the approach with the ceo meeting? who is he meeting with and -- >> meeting with several big people. sort of a second batch. the first was a couple weeks ago like jeff immelt and ursula burns and employed blalloyd bla the key thing is if you take a ceo like lloyd blankfein, he's not going to be building plants so not in the same position as the ceo of dupont who yesterday said that, she has stopped spending or pulled back spending significantly because of all this. because she is making plant decisions and she's dealing with the agriculture industry. there's so many -- the farm bill is up in the air. so many things you don't think about but the question with the ceos, is it really going to move
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the needle or just to show that he is clearly trying to repair his relationship with business. >> harold, these meetings with ceos, are really important because you and i both know and can say it now that the election is over, there were a lot of democrats, loyal lifelong democrats that ran a lot of really big corporations that went in, talked to president obama, they left and they left and in 2009, 2010 would say to people like you and me off the air, the guy is clueless when it comes to business. he is absolutely clueless. i supported him but he scares the hell out of me, that's been evolving and now that he's calling these leaders back in, it seems like the president's sort of putting his head down and i think we may be moving to a new chapter where he provides comfort to a lot of these business leaders and maybe that does more to help kick-start the economy than any bill we can
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pass over the next two months. >> i agree. the more he can connect passing something before the end of the year and how it creates jobs, if you're a congressman and in the middle of the country and you read the front page of your local business paper and the lead employer or medium size employer saying we could create a thousand to 2,000 more jobs over the next two years if we had regulatory certainty. if we don't go off the cliff. those are the kind of issues personalizing it for members of congress who need to understand in explicit ways the impact of going off the cliff may have. >> by the way, republicans -- listen, republicans, mark mckinnon seem to listen more to ceos in the house at least in my experience than democrats. whenever there was a contentious issue, bill clinton would bring corporate leaders over whether boeing or mcdonald's or ges and convince them sean come to the hill and say, guys, you're not helping bill clinton when you
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pass the bill but helping america. if the president could team up with these ceos -- >> that would be significant. the other point about what's different now, we saw this through the labels community is people are looking for problem solving and don't want to see tricks on the sequester. no games. put it forward, be real. we're ready for the real news but let's not dance around in this time. let's step up and whatever it is and seeing good plans like the one from corkery was was good -- >> one top republican is pushing members of his party to cut the deal with the president now. just cut a deal. congressman tom cole urged members to accept a plan that would extend tax breaks for households earning less than $250,000 and deal with the hiring tax cuts at a later time. >> a powerful statement from tom cole? >> i would agree it's a powerful
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statement from tom cole. i would disagree that's what republicans should do. that's like democrats saying we'll raise retirement age on medicare and worry about it later. >> because of the negotiation tactic and timing -- >> i'm not giving up that ship. if i'm a republican, i don't criticize tom cole. anybody that throws -- >> you want to exhaust every other possibility. >> he's an ally of paul ryan and sits -- if you look at where he sits along -- >> interesting. >> and he's a former pollster. >> i'm not being critical of tom cole. >> i know you're not. having the guts but as a guy that abhors raising taxes, if we're going to raise taxes, i say we raise taxes after we get the other side agreeing they'll save medicare. that they'll save medicaid and
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social security. that they're going to cut discretionary spending. you know, i will pay more taxes and americans will pay more taxes but not just so they can cop out like so many governors do and not make tough cuts. >> i talked to really severe republicans in the south and alabama and arkansas and they say the same thing and say we're prepared to do that but not unless there's some significant cuts on the other side but they are. talking about the fact they really are -- they're prepared to raise revenue. >> if you give washington money is my opinion and give washington money with no strings attached they will not only spend that money. they will create new programs that will not only spend that money but spend additional money in the future. we've seen it time and again. guess what, that's like leigh, we're $16.5 trillion in dealt. this didn't happen because politicians in washington are too responsible with tax dollars. >> but the entitlement side is starting to be put on the table. discussion -- all we've heard
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about is the tax side. this is sort of the next, you know, the other side equivalent and tastarting to talk about it >> what is the change you want to see? i agree with you. i hope entitlements are on the table between now and the end of the year. if not at least get us past it. what are one or two things you'd like to see? >> i'm not talking about a short-term debt and said all along about paul ryan's plan when it first came out, you don't do two things at once with one of the most important programs for americans. you don't change it into a voucher program and cut it. at the same time. that's too much for my mom to take. that's too much for your mom to take. republicans, democrats alike. what you do is look at the math. and you figure out among republicans, democrats, over the next 20 years to take medicare and medicaid and slow down the rate of growth and maybe that is gdp maybe gdp plus half a
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percentage point >> that's what the president -- >> that's what the president supports that position too. i'm not talking about massive cuts over the next couple of years. you know what, i hate deficits. i am a budget hawk. i'm a freak on that stuff. but you know what, we can't balance the budget next year. we can't count -- balance it. we can handle a few more years of deficits if we take care of the long-term debt. >> i agree. asking about one or two specifics. i don't have one or two specifics. because i'm not looking at medicare over the next year or two. it's the next 10, 15 years that medicare and medicaid together cripple us as a country. >> here's a few. gradually increase the medicare age. >> yeah -- >> which is what joe said. >> means testing for social security -- >> i agree. >> and by the way, means testing ought to get more focus. i think there are a lot of higher income earners who are willing to say we're willing to give up benefits. but so --
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>> we talk about over time. like, for instance -- >> 10 or 15-year. >> i don't want to raise it over five years. unfair to people banking on this for 30, 40 years but need to raise retirement age. >> i'm 42. i should not, people under 45 should be asked today to make a sacrifice for the country particularly if you earn over a certain amount. >> people my age. >> increase medicare premiums for those making more than 50,000 a year. >> those make perfect sense. >> when you look at the math and look at the reality and this country, i don't understand who would have -- who would disagree with that. >> not -- ? special accommodations for people earn -- a certain may have used their arms, backs -- >> why is it so hard to say. >> we're a different country and retirement is a great example. 20 years ago you retired at 65. you are didn't -- you know, maybe retirement was ten years, now it's 30 more years so, we're in a different -- things change in more ways than once, advances
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in health care, wonderful thing. >> life expectancy grew 18 years and moved the age up one or two. >> fdr started social security. you get it when you turn 65. >> we went to school in the south. we could figure -- >> that's good math. a program for a couple of years. >> no, you don't get it for a couple of year, die at 62. this is a program but -- ? back into the kitty. >> but a program that, you know, that works for -- >> with generations, a net earner. >> now we got -- >> we figured out a way to make money for people. >> three people working for every one person on social security. soon it'll be two person for every one person on -- life expectancy now is 79 and it's going to keep going up. the numbers don't add up. so, again, we can figure this out over time, we can -- but we've got to take care of long-term debt now. >> i think it's positive the president is meeting with ceos who did not support him and
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backed romney. that point was -- you made that and didn't want to gloss over that. don't want to salute my own ceo to reach out and urge members to strike a bipartisan deal. but reaching out to those who did not support him hopefully will allow some republicans to feel more comfortable in coming around on a bigger deal. >> i also want to say we talk about the president's leverage and capital with republicans and focus on it with democrats, as well. and that this is a time where, you know, he's not going to make republicans happy but also should be prepared no the to make democrats happy, as well. >> yeah, and he's just saying it. i think he will. the ceos that he's meeting with today. this comes in the past couple of weeks, i think it was the front page of "wall street journal" like some 80 companies have come together and said, we understand this is going to take a mixture of things that we're all going to have to hurt a little bit and we need compromise. we need certainty even if we
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don't like it. we need some type of certainty and a good sign to see that support around the president where i think you've seen him in the past sort of almost at odds with wall street and big business and at this point i think that's the third component is corporations stepping up and saying, okay, okay, whatever it takes, let's help washington be better. >> here's what it means if you do it. create the investment we make. >> here's what we'll give back. they're not hiring and some making record profits are not hiring and still cutting and doing part-timers and some of it is very legitimate. but there are some companies that are just saying we don't feel certain and keep our profits. that's not fair either. >> the economy is so much stronger than it was when we were dealing the debt ceiling negotiations. it's night and day compared to where we were. we're like almost like there. it's if we can just get and move this through, people -- it won't be rosey and sunshine. >> let's reflect.
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where were we during the debt negotiations. >> that was, what, august 2011. that was eight quarters ago -- i mean i'm not good at math either. >> yeah. >> we have alex just put this up with consumer confidence which is hitting a four-year high, housing is moving. there are signs that businesses can depend on poor -- at least for a certain level of certainty. >> if you are a publicly held company and you sit on a board of a company and decisions are made that hurt your company, you're accountable. we pass rules in the congress, joe and i both where we hold officers of companies and members of boards of these publicly traded companies for decisions. if you were the ceo of a publicly held company and i served on your board and you wanted to do things, i would balk if we didn't have a sense of what taxes would be or a sense of what -- big taxes -- what dividend taxes would be. largely because we are accountable, not to you and i but accountable to a huge number of shareholders and -- >> including unions and
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endowments and including a public university endowments et cetera, but i do think there is a big and legitimate argument they're making about certainly and if they got it, then i think your argument is spot-on. congress and the government is given certainty. >> get over it. get moving. >> if there was one word that defined the top companies, the top leadership you're talking about, boardrooms over the last two years, it was uncertainty. we all heard it. uncertainty. uncertainty -- well, guess what, there's going to be certainty now and that's good. >> we need demand on top of that because then they need the actual business to come back and starting to see that. if you look at what happened over the thanksgiving weekend. black friday sales were strong almost everywhere. everybody is expecting it to be a great holiday season. >> you're not good at math? >> i'm not good at math. i'm not afraid to say it. >> i didn't -- don't tell andy serwer. >> i didn't take a single math
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class at the university of alabama but you know what, though, at alabama we don't have to be good in math. we only have to count to number one every year. >> i have not heard that. >> i took rocks for jocks geology, science requirement. >> i did that too. i almost failed. >> ah. >> seriously, i had pretty -- i had really good grades as long as it was liberal arts but had to take one more science class and waited till the last semester and started calculating out my average, it was like, objection, my god, i got to get a 94 on this test -- i failed and i -- had like a "d" and i don't graduate and my family is coming up. talk about sweating. i'm sweating just thinking about it high. >> you hit the number though. >> i hit the number. >> you could do that math. >> i could do that math. >> les miles is doing math as we speak as he thinks -- >> should les go to arkansas.
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>> 5.25 versus -- >> lsu expects you to be number one every year. if you're not they hate you. >> build the program up. that's exciting. >> all right. >> get lsu to pay more. >> which i think he's due. i think this is negotiations. >> i don't think you need to say that for him but you still helped him. still ahead the author of a buying gras fry on winston churchill discusses the life of the revered -- >> this is great. >> and today's leaders can learn from him. larry summers joins us on set. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. at optionsxpress we're all about options trading.
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♪ woke up in a -- >> well, sitting down with lawmakers of both parties and working out an agreement, he's back on the campaign trail presumably with the same old
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talking points that we're all quite familiar with. look, we already know the president is a very good campaigner. we congratulate him on his re-election. what we don't know is whether he has the leadership qualities to lead his party to a bipartisan agreement. >> all right. here with us now from the director of the national white house economic council former treasury secretary, president emeritus at harvard, lawrence summers back at the table. but can i say it -- >> where's the rest of him. >> a lot less of you. you look fantastic. >> thank you very much. >> i can't help -- i have to say it because i'm sort of a health food person and i'm reading some of the things that you've said of recent about the -- what's going on with the cigarette industry and how perhaps it might even be something that we see with junk food industry. would you agree with me on that? just some of the concerns there? >> look, i think there's no question that the way americans eat and what americans weigh is a big contributor to health problems and it's a big
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contributor to health care costs. i don't think -- it's not the agenda right now but i think at some point you're going to start to see tax measures and regulatory measures that are going to be directed at helping people be healthier and that's just going to happen and i think it's probably a good thing when it does. there's obviously some careful balances that are going to have to get struck with, you know, people's freedom and things like that but just as we have over time done things with respect to tobacco that are very constructive and that are saving hundreds of thousands of people's lives, that kind of agenda is going to come to other aspects of public health including the way people eat. >> i have a specific interest in this because i'm writing a book about it, but what do you think of, for example, some of the mayors, mayor -- measures michael bloomberg has put in place or attempted to because
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he's certainly received a lot of criticism but yet i personally think he's on the cutting edge. >> i think the impulse behind it is right whether the particularly limitation of 16-ounce servings are the right way to go at it, i'm not enough of an expert to say but i think the impulse that you should help people help themselves by structuring the incentives in a way that remove temptations to do things that work out badly and increase the attractiveness of doing things that work out well, i think that's the right thing. you know, should kidding be going hungry at lunch because they can't have good food any like in the schools? you could take it too far and have to be careful. but this is one of those issues where there's probably never going to be the climactic moment or a dramatic summit but when somebody looks back at the country over 20 years, they're
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going to think that what happened around these kinds of issues are very, very important. >> so let's help washington help itself. mark mckinnon. >> thanks. i've spent a couple of days with you recently analyzing the elections and what the future looks like and you were terrific. though much of -- there was a lot of sobering observations you have about the economic long-term future and i wondered if you could talk a little about was natural gas and fracking and how it might change our energy and we're look about bright lights. can you give us a bright light and perhaps that and why we should be optimistic. >> the bright lights are here, one, you'd rather have america's problem as serious as they are in those than any of the major companies we compete with, certainly europe and japan. i would argue china, as well. two, we are the cutting edge of
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change in a knowledged economy. our universities are the best universities. we're the country that people from all over want to come to. think about any of the great entrepreneurs of this era and there's a very good chance you're thinking of an american. three, as you say mark, we have a remarkable competitive position in natural gas. we've got huge amounts of it that can be produced at very low cost. we had a very important economic decision to make. should we keep it captive and use the lower costs to support american manufacturers to support other american businesses? or should we allow it to be exported, improving our competitive position, getting export revenue, causing even more of it to be produced. i'm inclined as an economist to favor open markets and if people
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want to buy it, people from abroad want to buy our natural gas, i think that's a -- i think that's a terrific thing, but either way, this is a major natural resource and if you think about it, look, if you look at the consumer price indices in our country, the price of a television set is 1/16 of what it was 25 years ago. it's just getting easy to produce it. so where and where is value coming in today's economy? increasingly it's coming in knowledge, and increasingly it's coming in natural resources. and we've got a very strong position in both -- in both of those things, so we've got tough stuff we've got to work through with respect to the budget, with respect to the aftermath of the financial crisis, with respect to making sure everybody -- every american's ready to be part of an economy of the 21st century rather than the economy of the 20th century.
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but fundamentally in the things that are the future we've got a very strong position whether it's on the knowledge side or whether it's on the commodities and what you do with it side and so those give a lot of reason for optimism. >> and talk about natural gas, "the wall street journal" and others supporting by 2020 going to be the number one producer of oil in the world which, of course, is going to have a great impact. i'm wondering, four years later, much has changed. there's still americans that are struggling out there. but let's go back four years ago, you and a lot of other people, we're in the middle of what they call in the army, a soup sandwich. you just had a lot of things coming at you. how wow grade how the obama
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administration handled in an extraordinarily unique crisis four years ago? >> look, we got a rule at the university which is we never let professors grade their own papers because they're not likely to be objective. but i think -- >> let me ask -- why did you get -- >> i think the right thing -- i think basically the right things were done. the evidence that the right things are done comes from the way the united states looking compared to four years ago versus the way europe looks, versus the way japan looks. the evidence comes from looking at the fact that if you looked at the fall of 2008 on every important indicator, the stock market, jobs, industrial production, global trade, whatever you choose, it was worse than 1929. and if you look at what's happened, it's not where we'd like it to be but this is nothing like 1929 to 1933 so i think you got to give a high
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grade, and it's because the president made the right basic diagnosis. the president said at the first meeting we had with him after he listened to a bunch of this stuff. he said, look, the right way to pull a band-aid off is fast and we have got to come in hard, try and fix this. and whatever you say, that's what any hundred billion dollar recovery act is like or an automobile bailout was about. that's what a major set of transparency and capital infusions from the private sector into the banks was. so i'd give us -- i'd give it a high grade. frankly, i think the strategy would have been even more effective if the politics had permitted more continuity. we needed to keep the infrastructure spending going
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more than we did. it was not right, not the best thing to have fiscal policy move towards contraction as early as it did. but that was what congress insisted on, so there were things president wanted to do to give confidence that he wasn't fully able to do but i'd give high grades. >> one of the -- as we inch toward this compromise and seeing things come on the table from people that we didn't think were going to put those on the table. one of the things that came up is the mortgage interest deduction which is, sacrosanct and shapes behavior. what is your take on that? so many people say it benefits the wealthy, et cetera, et cetera but as much a part of our being as anything else. do you think it's something that should be on the table? >> i think it should be on the table and particular way it should be.
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it should be being phased out and the advantage of the phase-out is frankly housing is coming back but it can use a bunch of help. and if we phase it out, then people have an incentive to buy their houses sooner rather than later and so you can give the economy an extra lift by riding off of the -- riding off the phase-out. nothing people like like a sale. the right way to move on the mortgage -- >> canter doesn't have a mortgage deduction. >> larry summers, thank you so much. it's great to have you back on the show. >> thank you, mr. secretary. >> good to be with you. still ahead, two mans from today that spider-man turn off the dark plagued by scathing review and technical injuries and jordan roth takes us behind the scenes of the now thriving musical. we'll be right back.
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[ emily jo ] derrell comes into starbucks with his wife, danielle, almost every weekend. derrell hasn't been able to visit his mom back east in a long time. [ shirley ] things are sometimes a little tight around the house. i wasn't able to go to the wedding. [ emily jo ] since derrell couldn't get home, we decided to bring home to him and then just gave him a little bit of help finding his way. ♪ [ laughs ] [ applause ] i love you. i love you, too.
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christmastime in rockefeller center. tonight this norway spruce will be lit up, the most famous christmas tree in the world.
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out here live on the plaza, it's a cold morning after that rain that moved through yesterday, the big show is beginning to be set up behind me. of course, you ought to watch that tonight on nbc, 8:00, 7:00 central. a lot of amazing guests will be there, of course, and they'll be hosted by al roker, savannah guthrie, cee lo green and always entertaining billy crystal and bette midler. blustery and chilly, windchill of 32 but should be just fine for your television viewing. a little cold to be here. big weather story as you go throughout the next couple of days, all the stormy weather will be shifted to the west coast. cold and chilly from the great lakes to the northeast. that's not where the weather issues will be. all the weather issues will be out on the west coast where we'll expect to see heavy rain over the next couple of days. as far as the forecast goes, traveling to san francisco, san jose, seattle to portland, even los angeles at times, this is
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where all the rainy weather will be and could see as much as 3 to 6 inches a day and for your morning commute around san francisco and sacramento, do be prepared for a rather slow one. again, that's the big weather issue out there across the country. we're coming up next on "morning joe," remember a few years back all the issues with the delays to "spider-man." that's forgotten as they rake in the big bucks and high volume of people going through the doors. jordan roth joins us. stay tuned. [ female announcer ] the humana walmart-preferred rx plan p-d-p
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the dark" first debuted it was met with rebukes because of months of delays and technical problems. now two years later it is enjoying massive audiences -- >> has anybody followed it lately, mika? >> so for the anniversary i went to one of the very first ones, i sure did, we turn -- >> i did too. >> and spiderman was like dangling over the audience. >> and there was a big bee -- anyhow, the president of the theaters jordan roth, we turn to him to give our "morning joe" theater correspondent louis bergdorf, doo, doo, a backstage tour of the hit musical. >> so now you're freezing my buns off on broadway. i know nothing about it. jordan roth, i got, morni"morni joe's" correspondent. you have the key to every theater in the city, even the ones you don't own.
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take us on a behind-the-scenes tour to see what's going on. >> let's go. ♪ >> so we're here backstage with chris tierney, the hero spidey, hero flier in the beginning of the show you took a very tragic and very well publicized fall. >> we've been working really, really hard and tired and human error that happened. i think it's best it did happen to me because we were bound and determined to make this show work. >> we're glad you're still flying? >> me too. me too. >> see you out there tonight. >> we're backstage at spider-man with spider-man. happy, happy two-year anniversary. >> pretty crazy -- i can't believe i've been here two year. >> what keeps you here for two years. >> you get to try new things every night with the material. >> kind of like a dream come true i i've always wanted to be spider-man. now i get to -- ♪ ♪ >> you get the -- >> so many people didn't think the show would open let alone
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run. here we are, the two-year anniversary, feel vindicated. >> i feel like it's easter. we're still alive and back. >> i think recoup something possible. it will take some time to recoup the entire investment. >> if you knew then what you know now would you have produced the show. >> no, not a chance. >> how funny is that -- >> bring you genuine spidey web. >> is that what it is? >> second-year anniversary of spidey web. >> just first of all did louis make you uncomfortable? >> we had the best time. >> he's lying again. >> we're doing a double act. >> are you in character right now? >> always. >> maybe. >> jordan, how about spider-man got absolutely mass critique by the critics and yet people keep going. tourists keep coming and keep filling up the audience. we brought a friend from florida while we were looking at it
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going, oh, my god, this is early. this is horrible. looked over and, wild-eyed wonderment and love it >> that's the face. that's the face. they actually at the show now take pictures and post them on facebook so you can see yourself with spider-man and the faces be -- everybody is looking up open-mouthed and that's what we have to look at. that's what's taking the show two years into a run. >> it's making money? >> it's making a lot of money and grossed almost $150 million to date. and it averages a million-four a week. what's bad about that? >> how unusual given the sometimes catastrophic effect of social media, how unusual is it for a failure to come back, rebuilt and become a phenomenal success? >> it's unprecedented. what they have done with this show really closing it down for three weeks to completely
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reimage what it could be and then reup -- it's unprecedented. >> we were just talking about you two and then the way they came at it. in this period when they shut down i ran into edge, they were like -- they recognized the stakes. >> you ran into edge. >> i did. i di. he was talking about the pressure they were under because this would be a huge catastrophe like a massive reputation-killing thing. what changed? what's the before and after? >> what was bad about it and now what's so good about it? >> well, i think what they really did is they focused on -- >> you were such a name-dropping freak. >> you know, i ran into edge. >> a good name to drop if you're going to drop some. >> i'm sorry. go ahead. what they did was they really focused on the central conflict between spider-man and the green goblin. that's -- that is what we wanted to see. that's the conflict.
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>> like distracting kids on the side of the stage. >> no more distracting -- >> tra freshish -- >> she's still here but serves a different purpose. it's a creative experiment to see what you can do when you take everything in your toy box, keep your toy box, keep all the elements and completely deploy them for a different goal. >> i'm very excited about two things coming. tennessee which wiilliams class. >> cat on a hot tin roof, scarlett johansson. if you don't want to buy a ticket just from looking at that picture right there, that's a sign that you are dead. >> ciaran behinds is in it, too? we don't care about anybody other than scarlett johansson. >> and you can talk about that one. >> heilemann and i are rock snobs. you know what, we have a very, very soft place in our heart for barry manilow.
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>> that's what i'm talking about. >> yes! he's coming to broadway. >> no. >> live at the st. james with us for three weeks. >> can you get us in? >> we're all coming. >> can i meet him? >> of course you can meet him. you're joe scarborough. >> i don't know if i could see through that. >> as excited as we are about those two shows, there's a posthumous play with tom hanks. >> lucky guy coming in the spring. i think it's going to be a really hot ticket. >> and then kinky boots. >> kinky boots, sinncyndi laupe wrote the score. and it is delicious, sexy, sassy, moving fun. >> is it kinky? >> we bring you a little kinky. >> and some booty? >> does barry manilow sing coco? >> coco. >> hit after hit after hit.
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>> used to open for bette midler. >> he used to open for bette midler. >> maybe she'll come. the other piece of news -- >> news from broadway. >> bono and the edge are working on some new songs for spider-man. they consider this really a work in progress. >> that would help. that would help. >> it's a work in progress. they are continuing to work on it. >> that's awesome. that's really impressive. two years later, how can it be better? >> i like that. that's what we do every day. >> see? >> in love with nora efron. when does her play begin? >> in the spring in march. >> and this is tom hapnks' broadway debut? >> yes, be there. fantastic. >> i have to get over my barry manilow. >> you come, you'll meet -- >> i don't know. >> edge. >> nothing to be angry about. >> really? >> it's all good, barry manilow. we'll see you at the st. james. thank you, guys.
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>> so good to have you on the show. we're sorry about louis. >> i have yet to do this. heilemann and i are going to be like in the front row of "mad love" opening night. >> guaranteed. >> teenage girl looking at one direction. >> we will be there with the "morning joe" camera just for that. mika, who is ahead? >> actor ray lio ittta stops by from "goodfellas" to "field of dreams." guess which one of those he's never seen. keep it here on "morning joe."
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republicans stand firm on the opposition of confirmation of susan rice despite yesterday's meeting on capitol hill. is this a fight the gop can win? that's next. with the spark cash card from capital one,
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good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. time to wake up, everyone, as we take a live look at new york city. back with us on set we have mike barnicle, john heilemann, and andrea mitchell in washington. >> do you know what i always say? okay, i'm in trouble, and they get these little arm bands now. wwjd. what would joe do? so what do i say? you've seen those? you make a mistake, just step up
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and say, i was wrong. >> exactly. i'm sorry. >> do you know how many times i have to do that every day? a lot. a lot. i find it works. look at this. hey, john, i'm sorry, i made a mistake. you say to me -- that's okay. >> well -- >> try me. people really want to see that. >> mika, i'm sorry, i made a mistake. >> oh, it's all right. >> mike, i'm sorry, i made a mistake. >> that works. >> is it okay? >> you look weak. >> how about this, i am so, so sorry. is there anything i can do to help you? >> you know what? you just did it. you just can did it. so -- >> so that's what happened on capitol hill. >> susan rice goes to capitol hill and she says, you know what, bad intel, i made a mistake, i'm sorry. i am glad that the people that are in my party on capitol hill have hearts as big as the sky
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because i'm sure they said, it's cool. you know what? we all make mistakes. all of us on capitol hill, we all make mistakes. it's cool. so how did this work out after she said she was sorry? >> well, there's still another chance. ambassador susan rice is heading back to capitol hill today. >> okay. but i want to know what happened yesterday. >> i will tell you. she continued to defend her response on the september 11 attack on the consulate in benghazi as a top pick to replace secretary of state hillary clinton, rice faces sort of an uphill battle because she failed to win over her harshest republican critics yesterday. >> i don't think it's an uphill battle. she wants to be secretary of state for greenville, south carolina or mesa, arizona. >> she actually requested this meeting. it was with senators lindsey graham and kelly ayotte and john
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mccain. >> they were upset. john mccain over the weekend backed up a little. >> he backed up. >> which is really cool. she went up and said i'm sorry. >> she did the brave thing and went right in there and said i want to address this. >> how did that work? >> she talked about her initial account of the attack. she explained to them that she was relying on faulty intelligence, faulty talking points from the intelligence communities. >> and they said? >> they said, you know what, we still don't get it. >> go to video. >> we are significantly troubled by many of the answers that we got and some that we didn't get. it is clear that the information that she gave the american people was incorrect. >> bottom line, i'm more disturbed than i was before. if you don't know what happened, just say you don't know what happened. people can push you to give explanations and you can say i don't want to give bad information. >> i am more troubled today
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knowing, having met with the acting director of the cia and ambassador rice. clearly the information given to the american people was wrong. ambassador rice said today absolutely it was wrong. >> so ambassador rice -- >> what was that? john heilemann, what did we just see? what did we just see? >> i made a mistake. >> what did we just see? and how do they -- they pull kelly ayotte into this trifecta after lieberman starts running for the doors because lieberman is now fine. do they have to have three of these people at all times? >> a third amigo. >> they want to look diverse. andrea mitchell, tell us what you think is going on. >> there's a proxy fight. john mccain sent every signal as did lindsey graham that they were backing off of this ledge and so susan rice goes up there
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thinking that it's going to be smoothed over as her side man she's got the acting director of the cia, mike morell, who is widely regarded and is a possible nominee to be successor to david petraeus and it blows up in their face. later in the day the senators put out another statement criticizing morell because they say he had misled them in yesterday's meeting claiming the rewriting of those intelligence talking points was done by the fbi to take out al qaeda references, not by the cia, which we have already been told by the director of national intelligence, did come from the intelligence community. so it's even worse than it was before they went up. i think she'll have a better time with susan collins and the senator from tennessee known to be bipartisan. i don't think it will be as vitriolic as yesterday. she really felt, i'm told, that she wanted to clear her name, that she had been maligned, that she had been on morning television.
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the real issue here as jay carney was trying to say is what happened before? what happened during perhaps but not what happened on sunday morning television programs. and there is an investigation that hillary clinton has commissioned. it is a legally mandated investigation. it's being led by none other than the former chairman of the joint chiefs, mike mullen, co-chaired by tom pickering, former u.n. ambassador, former ambassador to russia and deputy secretary of state. it's going to be coming out in mid december. it will be recorded to congress and i understand it will be very, very tough on the state department for not ramping up security which many people believe could be the real issue not what was said on sunday morning television. the white house is fighting for her. >> so andrea, i just am confused but maybe you can help straighten this out. i would think lindsey graham and senator mccain for sure -- i'm not sure about kelly ayotte, have been on sunday morning shows many, many, many times.
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and i'll leave it there and not even go to the point that maybe at times they might have said things that they, you know, weren't completely confirming. >> what they are suggesting is that she said things for political reasons three weeks before the election. that's what lindsey graham suggested, and they were trying to mislead the american people. >> again, mike barnicle, i've asked this question before, did john mccain say that colin powell was unfit to continue as secretary of state after the information that he gave before the united nations that led us into the iraq war? did that make colin powell unfit to be secretary of state, or was colin powell given bad intel? i never heard him say that. i never heard lindsey graham say that. >> condoleezza rice. >> the same thing with condoleezza rice. she gave bad information to congress, not just to a sunday morning talk show, to congress. to congress. >> so how can you say that's three people that we just saw on video, if we can put them back on, are not jumping into an
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intelligence debate for political reasons? because they did not speak up at other very key times even perhaps more significant times in foreign policy. >> we get the point. we all agree here, maybe there are people out there across america who are saying, you know what we really need? we really need people to fight hard night and day to side track the secretary of state potential candidate because of some things that she said on sunday -- maybe there are those people out there. i don't know where they are because i have never met them but i do want to know this. like what's their long game, willie? what are they doing? this doesn't help the republican party. this is like mitt romney's dumb press conference the day after libya exploded and the ambassador died. there's a time and a place. there are so many ways to go after susan rice. things other than this on whether she even has the temperament to be secretary of
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state. that's a big question in washington, d.c. let me say it again. does susan rice have the temperament to be secretary of state? there are a lot of people, democrats, who will tell you privately that just maybe she doesn't. but we're not talking about this. this is a clown show that's going on right now. >> i who have that debate. >> what is the long game? >> the long game is unclear and the short game is even more unclear because they're not going to hold up the nomination of susan rice. i mean, if you look at the big picture, they only need to peel off -- i don't know what the number is, six to seven. >> so what happens? who do they end up making look stronger? >> they make them -- they make the obama white house, susan rice look stronger but they're fighting this fight, the three, four, five of them on a losinging cause. they're not going to hold up the nomination with four senators. >> i don't get it. >> it would appear that prior to yesterday that this was all a political passing storm that we get through this, that she would go down there and speak behind closed doors and we would get
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through this or she would get through this. but maureen dowd today in "the new york times" and senator susan collins of maine, susan collins of maine, a moderate royce on the republican side of the aisle, expresses some misgivings about ambassador rice, which is a real, i would think, danger sign for her. >> listen, the president is going to get the secretary of state he wants. if he wants susan rice, all the republicans are going to do is waste time and effort unless -- unless they know something that nobody else knows that susan rice was deliberately cooking the books. when she has the intel community sitting next to her saying this is what we will let you say, i think she's pretty good shape. >> i think that's true and i also think they're making her -- they're putting the president in a corner from which it's almost impossible for him not now to nominate her. i think he's wanted her to be secretary of state.
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you look at all the signs. he seems to have wanted susan rice for this job, leaning in her direction for a while, but he's now in this position where if he doesn't nominate her, he's backing down in the face of what seems to be large ly political and unfounded opposition to her. it seems to me that they're making it -- they're almost making it inevitable her nomination. >> they are. >> and i think he has the votes. in the end he has the votes. and i can't believe the republican party is going to filibuster this woman. it just doesn't make any sense to me politically. >> it doesn't make sense when it comes to politics. it just doesn't make any sense at all. and, secondly, it doesn't make any sense at all when it comes to substance. now if susan rice had something to do with security, had something to do with the repeated denials of the administration to provide more security to libya, if it had
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anything to do with the fact that the s.e.a.l.s that were calling for help and got no help during the attack, if she had anything to do with that, i would be the first to say she is unfit for office. she had nothing to do. she was the spokesperson. >> what if she attacked senator mccain in the past four years ago and it embarrassed him? does that apply? >> well, i don't know. if this is a personal thing. this probably isn't what we need to be focused on right now when the president is trying to raise taxes by about 4% or 5% on top job earners. >> joe lieberman walked away. >> unfortunately, his vote doesn't count so it was easy for
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him to do that. i haven't seen a brave face yet in this. >> what i find curious, the thing we keep saying over and over again there are these really serious issues around -- going back and looking at what happened. the failures of intelligence, the failures of security. it seems to me john mccain, lindsey graham, kelly ayotte, republicans and democrats alike, should want to nope the answers to those questions. every day you spend talking about this, it's like a sideshow, a distraction from the real issues that -- if you want to hold congressional hearings on why were the requests for backup not listened to? that is what everyone should want to get to the bottom of. we have embassies and consulates all over the world in dangerous plac places. we should want to know what the failures were so we can keep our people safe. >> you know what else we can talk about as we're debating about raising taxes and all these other issues? we had warren buffett on the show yesterday. warren buffett said raising the top marginal tax rate to 39.6%
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wouldn't catch any of the top income earners in america. that it would not impact them at all. now why shouldn't republicans be focusing on that, the real political battle in washington today, instead of focusing on a battle they know they're going to lose, against a woman of color after they just got shellacked in the polls among people of color and females. why are they doing this? and, andrea, a bigger question, as we go to a new congress, is john mccain going to continue to have the disproportionate impact that he has on foreign policy in the republican senate caucus? mika and i talked to so many people over the past two, three years that say we want, republican senators, we want out of afghanistan but, you know what, we just sort of stay out of john's way. how many times have we heard that? >> a lot. it's disturbing. >> we hear it all the time. they stay out of his way. are they going to blindly follow
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and, again, i love and respect senator mccain, but i don't want my party to blindly follow him over a cliff on this battle especially if it's a personal one. >> well, on this battle it may be a personal one. i think the answer to your broader question is that republicans will continue to respect and follow his advice and syria is the next big issue that he is pounding away on. he was at a forum at the museum yesterday and crying out for american leadership on syria which means more engagement, more involvement. so there are a lot of big issues that he has huge influence on because of his experiences, his personal history. this issue i'm not so sure they'll follow him on. two of the three senators say they're putting holds on a nomination that has not even gone up. we've had nobel laureate economists nominated for the federal reserve who was finally with drew his name after a year of waiting because he was not going to be confirmed.
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>> consumer -- >> the consumer protection agency, elizabeth warren's former agency. you have people all over 0 the place, judges, republicans, who have been on hold. now when lindsey graham mentioned was john bolton and that was a clear warning because john bolton, as you know, was not confirmed for u.n. a.m. b ambassador and was a recess appointee. there's no way the president is going to nominate as secretary of state as a recess appointee. you just cannot with credibility lead diplomacy around the world. this week we'll have a debate -- tomorrow there's a debate in the general assembly of the united nations on palestinian state hood. it is symbolic but now france is going along with the rest of the general assembly. the united states and israel and a few others will stand alone against this symbolic gesture. it's considered a very important move by the weakened fatah branch of the palestinians after what's happened with fgaza and
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hamas. real things at stake here. and susan rice has to stand up there and represent the united states and there's got to be a lot of weakening of her position. coming up next, "the last lion." a definitive biography on winston churchill 20 years in the making was left incomplete after the author passed away. we'll talk to the man who decided to finish it next. also ahead, actor ray liotta stops by to discuss his latest mob movie and reflect back on some of his classics. >> he's great. but first, here is bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> not so great. >> you're a classic. that's the line i was waiting for. good morning. obviously behind me the norway spruce will be lit later on tonight. this is a nice one from new jersey, about 75 feet tall, 50 feet wide, ten tons of good sized tree. and this tree was taken down just after hurricane sandy struck and they did bundle it up to make sure it survived that storm. of course it didn't survive the chainsaw for your enjoyment. 8:00 east coast time, 7:00
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pacific. al roker, savannah guthrie and a host of great musical artists will be here, also bette midler and billy crystal to make some guest star appearances. let me take you through your forecast 0 to get you out the door. it's a cold day but later this afternoon it will be all right. we're going to survive after a chilly start. notice the temperatures are pretty warm. as far as the tree forecast goes, it's a very cold morning in the wake of that storm that left yesterday. windchills in the 20s and 30s. so that's going to be with us all day in the northeast. no airport delays or anything like that. down here on the plaza or watching people on tv freezing, it will be blustery. that windchill right around 32. the other big weather story we're going to watch over the next three days, the west coast. a huge storm system moving onshore today. a bigger one tomorrow. we're going to see as much as 3 to 6 inches of rain. driving i-5, the rain is moving in for your morning commute and everyone there around san francisco and even l.a. later today has a chance of getting drenched with some of that wet weather. overall it looks pretty nice everywhere east of the rockies.
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it is not given to us the mysteries of the future.
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i avow my hope and faith pure and invie lat that in the days to come the british and american people will for their own safety and for the good of all walk together in magic step in justice and in freedom. >> that was former british prime minister winston churchill on american soil addressing copping back in 1941. this friday, november 30th, marks churchill's birthday. here to talk about the final years of britain's revered lead certificate paul reid, co-author of "the last lion." the defender of the realm, 1940-'65. mike barnicle and mark mckinnon are back with us as well. great to have you on the show. >> delighted to be here. >> you're giving us the back story. how did you get involved with the project? >> well, i have to do it fast. i met bill manchester when i was
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doing a story on him in 1998. he had two strokes. went up with some marines to buck them up a bit. we became friends and visited him over the years. we became good friends. die hard red sox fans. >> really? >> there you go. >> that's what does it. >> he, of course, the last book he completed was alone with churchill in the wilderness years and you get to pick up this it remarkable story at a moment as you all describe where everything lined up for winston churchill to step into his place in history that he had been preparing for since he was playing with toy soldiers in the 19th century. >> he did not believe in fate but on that occasion he did. this was the day that he had been working towards since he was a little boy.
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no one trusted him. this was an unpopular man in the big job, the big role at the most important time. >> he was seen as a joke in the '30s. >> the day before the king summoned him to number ten torre functionaries were wonder who will it be sam but not winston. he's useless. >> even the king. >> even the king didn't want him. >> even the king didn't like winston churchill and was mournful that he had been treated so badly. >> the difference is winston churchill liked winston churchill. >> winston churchill didn't like winston churchill. and that's one of the things i found in this book. winston churchill loved winston churchill and i think even more fascinating, he was surrounded by people that loved winston churchill and, as you say, and why not?
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he was winston churchill. talk about how he held court everywhere he went. >> he told a friend or biographer his idea of a perfect evening was to have wonderful food, wonderful drink, and much of it -- >> lots of it -- >> with wonderful friends, and at the end of the meal conversation which he with would lead and guide and, in fact, monopolize. that was his idea of a perfect evening. >> and we're not saying this even half in jest. he simply wasn't interested in what other people had to say. >> no. sadly, especially with regards to his wife, or what they felt. she was under a lot of stress. she was having nervous break downs. his daughter and his son were descending into alcoholism and another daughter killed herself
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with barbiturates. he didn't see it at all. he didn't see any of it. >> talking about alcohol, we have heard before, and you talk about it here that churchill always seemed to have at least a little bit of alcohol in his body. you said he ate horribly, he drank horribly, and he smoked. churchill could not have been an alcoholic because no alcoholic could drink that much. >> at breakfast, dinner, working all the time. >> i heard someone tried to imitate his day. he had a bottle of wine at breakfast with black tea and then the little johnnie walker red which he nursed all day adding more water, more water. but then at lunch a couple of beers, always a bottle of champagne. >> so he was always drunk? >> no, not drunk.
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>> and even his critics, eleanor ro roosevelt would say it was just remarkable because you don't want to argue with him after dinner and the third brandie. he never appeared very, very rarely, well, he's drunk. >> okay. always under the influence or that was his normal state. >> what was it about churchill that made him such a remarkable man, i would say the man of the century just because of what happened in 1940. we're talking about all these oddities but yet in these oddities, he was beyond remarkable. his memory, his ability. he didn't live in the past. the past lived in him, and yet all of these traits a came together at the perfect time to save western civilization. he stood alone. >> he did. and we in america our 1941
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begins in honolulu on december 7. our collective memory of that year, except for red sox/yankees fans. ted williams. but other than that, that's when our year began and he's now in the 11th or the 12th month of 1941 alone for another year that we don't even remember, a terrible year for englishmen, britain, as president roosevelt would say. >> this is such an epic work about an epic human being, winston churchill begun by an epic writer, bill manchester. talk a bit about the degree of difficulty, what manchester left you, what direction he gave you, if any, in terms of completing the work that manchester devoted so much of his life toward. >> he had 5,000 plus pages of notes arranged in 100-page blocks, tablets. he called them clumps.
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i took them home and i say in the author's note, i learned pretty quickly they spoke to him in ways they couldn't speak to me. he had colds on the left and right -- codes on the left and right for topic and source. the key was lost. the librarian found it two years later. so about 18, 20 months into this i thought i can't do it. with bill's notes. he could have if he was healthy. so i kind of reverse engineered and found the sources and new memoirs that weren't available to him and assembled them on five tables this a room and, you know, that was my factory. my line. my production line. and i realized i had to do it in little segments. a story at a time. the bismarck sinking or dunkirk or the fall of france or five, six, eight, ten pages and then
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move on to the next one. if i thought in terms of 2,200 type written pages stacked up to my left -- >> did you start with wine in the morning? >> wine in the afternoon. >> when was the moment from winston churchill -- we talked about how he was a joke in the 1930s. what was the moment -- was it after dunkirk that one critic after another who had loathed him just a year earlier said, you know what, this is the man who can save england? >> and how much of a joke -- how unpopular was he? >> very. among his own party. they didn't want -- the tories didn't want him in the party. >> it was labor that actually made this coalition government work. >> right. >> and the prime minister. >> the labor said we won't work with any other than winston. >> so that was the key. that's what kind of saved him, that coalition? >> the coalition. >> and that demand?
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>> and the tories didn't want him. >> and what was it about his relationship with labor? >> 040 years earlier he had switched parties to the liberal party. >> he was very flexible. >> very flexible. >> he's the one who said it's one thing to rat and another to rerat. >> he was extraordinarily flexib flexible. he would break a union and then become the union's biggest champion. >> when he reratted, tories never forgave him for ratting in the first place. labor trusted him. with gladstone, the early part of the 20th century, he was the uncle, if you will, of the british social security system and the national health insurance and programs that roosevelt introduced 20 years later with great trepidation. ch churchill was onboard two decades earlier. >> and at one moment, brown shirts after the irish and then he becomes a champion of home
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rule. >> he was willing to deal for the three irish ports that chamberlain had stupidly given back to ireland. ch churchill was willing and told roosevelt, you give us the ports and we'll make it happen after the war that ultimately returns to ireland. >> what was winston churchill's greatest moment? was it his speech? what was it? >> i think one of the most powerful -- the most powerful moment for me was his valedictory speech in march of '55, never again spoke in the house but he stayed there for the next nine years. where he wondered if god had forsaken humanity because of humanity's behavior. and he pretty much came up with mutually assured destruction and he laid it out in that speech and he said with these bombs, h-bombs, a war can be fought but no one will win and we're all going to die and it was, i
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think, a very powerful moment. i think it moved eisenhower. it moved policy. he always wanted to get to a summit meeting with the soviets and never did. he failed there. but in his last day, his last speech in the house of commons, i think that was his finest hour. >> the book is "the last lion. "paul reid, thank you very, very much. >> great work. >> next year for the sox. >> absolutely. up next, business before the bell with brian shactman. nope. just can't fit 'em in my budget. well, with the walmart credit card special financing offer, you can get the sony blu-ray home theater system with wi-fi and the high zoom cyber-shot camera with full hd. look at you, spreading some christmas joy! my cart's kinda full. mind holding these? sure. you know what, muscle man, me and you together,
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you'll get a bowl of queso restore revive rejuvenate rebuild rebuild rebuild there's manhattan. i'm not going to make the shuttle. business before the bell but brian shactman is across the river. before we get to business before the bell, your thoughts, please, on joe lauer and the red sox. >> when joe mauer was playing for the aa he was 19 and everyone said this guy is it. and you watch aa ball and you
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can't see it. he's an awesome guy and i think it will be great and he's a character guy. i can't say enough. >> what do people say about the markets? >> they're not looking if i cannily good. you talked about the tone. the positive tone about the rhetoric, the fiscal cliff. investors aren't really buying it. warren buffett said he thinks it will be a deal but not before the new year. secondly, costco, we all shop there and you braet, you inhale and you spend $200 there. $3 billion they're doling out, guys, because they don't want to wait to see what the tax situation is on the back end of this. >> brian shactman still grateful. >> the magicians. you've got it. >> all right.
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when we come back, he started movies ranging from "field of dreams" to "goodfellas" ray liotta joins us on set. hi, i just switched jobs, and i want to roll over my old 401(k) into a fidelity ira. man: okay, no problem. it's easy to get started; i can help you with the paperwork. um...this green line just appeared on my floor. yeah, that's fidelity helping you reach your financial goals. could you hold on a second? it's your money. roll over your old 401(k) into a fidelity ira and take control of your personal economy. this is going to be helpful. call or come in today. fidelity investments. turn here.
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ray liotta, perhaps his most famous film role was mobster henry hill in the 1990 movie "goodfellas" a role he turned down a chance to audition for "batman" and with the dvr you can see either movie in just a few clicks. nobody finds your entertainment like tivo. >> you know i'm going to kill you. you know that, don't you?
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it doesn't have to happen. it shouldn't happen here. just put the gun down. >> welcome back to "morning joe." joining us actor ray liotta. >> this is big. >> one of the stars of the new film "killing them softly." very nice to have you on the show. >> thanks. >> thanks for coming on. >> mike, who is better? >> i mean -- mika knows who you are. she grew up in a cave. >> i do. i'm not allowed out. >> in her father's household. dr. brzezinski. >> it's just that i wasn't allowed -- >> it's a sad story. it's the iron curtain comes here from poland. >> ever see "goodfellas," mika? >> i have. >> what happens in it? >> i'm not allowed but i did know him and you have a great face. yeah.
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>> yours isn't so bad either. >> seriously. >> despite all of his credentials, all the credentials he does have, he would live forever with the one tracking shot through the kitchen that one tracking shot takes it from the streets, down the steps, through the kitchen, the table. finally kick back and turn on the tv, flip through the channels and field of dreams is on. and it just makes you tear up if you're a guy every time. but it hit me, he's like 20 years ago. god. >> actually it was before "good fellas." it was my fourth. and that was '91. '89, i think. it was a while ago.
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>> let's talk about "killing them softly." barnicle was giving background. this is a book and an idea that's been around for a while. >> when did the book come out? i don't even know. >> probably 1980, early 1980s. and the movie, from what i understand of it and what i've seen, what you're seeing here, the movie is very true to the book. i don't know who did the screenplay. >> edgar dominick, the director. >> but it's a very small story that is a great story filled with, you know, the real characters, the dialogue is fantastic, obviously, because it will tell us the story. you're involved. it's a card game you run. >> i look over a card game. i'm a nice guy. i once robbed a card game. the card game gets robbed again. they think it's me, so they bring brad pitt in to get me. and they bring in james
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gandolfini because brad pitt's character doesn't like doing the hits anymore and it's just kind of like what happens. >> what was it like? >> i really didn't. it was -- he shoots me, but he shot me one day and i got shot two days later. >> did you get to talk to him at all? >> what was it like not working -- >> hold on a second. i'm setting this up. seems like a nice enough guy? >> very nice. >> did you have a chance in the short time you talked to him to ask him what the hell he was thinking when he did the chanel commercials? i mean, seriously. >> a question as opposed to just noting it. >> if it's okay. >> you made this movie you said was your third or fourth movie. joe was talking about thanksgiving, it's on television all the time. on some channel it's on everywhere because it's a classic, right? when you think back on the experience of doing that, what most stands out in your mind when you realize that you were making the movie that was going to be like a modern classic or
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did that not occur to you? >> not at all. >> it was only my fourth movie. my mother was really sick during the period. here i was working with great actors and scorcese as a director. i enjoyed it but it's bittersweet. >> and -- >> that just brought it down, didn't it? >> and, i'm curious, i remember -- i remember frank talking about when he first went to jimmy stewart and told him it's a wonderful life was about. i pitched it for 15 minutes and looked into his face and realized he had no idea what the hell i was talking about. when you first heard the concept -- by the way, because you're hearing voices. >> i couldn't visualize what
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they were doing and i never read the book. i said this is crazy. i'll do it but it's crazy. >> i like you a lot. >> i told you he had a great face. >> you did tell me that. >> it is. you could be like -- and it just feeds into your range. seriously. evil, good, all there. perfect. >> i love it. not self-consumed unlike all of us on the set. the movie is "killing them softly." ray, thank you so much and, by the way, talk to brad, okay. not good. not good. ray liotta was the original choice in the 2006 mob film requesting the departed." mark wahlberg ended up with the role. if you had tivo premiere and the web simultaneously you could watch that movie at a moment's notice. put it all at your fingertips. ♪
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joe, did you learn anything? >> a lot about winston churchill. >> i learned that we're all going to see barry manilow. >> is that a problem? >> kind of. whatever. i'll try. >> churchill smurchill but posthumous nora efron play, who is not going to that? >> barnicle? >> you can never have enough churchill. >> mark mckinnon? >> i think he's a great example of leaders who have to do unpopular things and whether or not they are popular or not. >> joe, if it's way too early,